I recently went on a visit to Doha and had the chance to sit down with the Director of Mathaf, Doctor Abdellah Karroum. We had a great conversation about art in the Middle East and about his ideas for Mathaf in 2014.
[Q]
As the director of Mathaf you are introducing people of the region to new ideas through art. What are your thoughts about some people having a negative reaction?
[A]
It’s interesting that you bring up the topic because just yesterday Shirine Neshat was at Mathaf discussing some upcoming projects with me. Upon entering the installation “Printemps” by Adel Abdessemed, her reaction was to immediately leave the room. As humans we intuitively don’t accept violence, and sometimes the reaction is to fight against it in order to escape. Here, the artist is putting violence directly in front of us and forcing us to face it instead of escape it. It’s a natural and expected reaction.
As humans we intuitively don’t accept violence, and sometimes the reaction is to fight against it in order to escape.
[Q]
Are you involved in choosing the roster of artists the museum presents?
[A]
The program which was already in place here at Mathaf when I arrived, by good coincidence, is a program that I would choose myself. Before I came to Mathaf as a director, I was mainly curating international exhibitions and will continue curating some of the exhibitions which are taking place at the museum.
One of my favorite artists that I will be working with soon, as I mentioned earlier is Shirine Neshat, who is not only an artist but also an activist and someone who is very involved in politics. She has a lot to say, having lived in exile for most of her life.
Before I came to Mathaf as a director, I was mainly curating international exhibitions and will continue curating some of the exhibitions which are taking place at the museum.
My challenge will be to open the dialogue without limiting her while at the same time inspiring her to create works that can be received by people and accepted. My goal is to make the dialogue possible without making it confrontational. The first time she came to see the space was yesterday and we are starting from zero. We don’t have the title even of the exhibition yet. I will be going to New York to work with her in her studio on ideas for this upcoming exhibition.
My goal is to make the dialogue possible without making it confrontational.
Before Shirine we have Mona Hattoum and we all know the importance of her role in the contemporary art world. She is a great figure and one of the first working artists in the world from the Middle East, both in new forms and also in putting art in the political sphere and fighting for freedom. I am looking forward to collaborating with both of them.
[Q]
Do you think the Middle East and Qatar are ready to accept such big women artists?
[A]
Art is the basis of change in society, although in our country I don’t know if it’s too early or not. It is our duty to show these artists who are tackling the idea of freedom in the Arab world today including the equality and inequality of women. When you have a society where there is inequality between men and women it’s the most broken issue of progress.
Art is the basis of change in society, although in our country I don’t know if it’s too early or not. It is our duty to show these artists who are tackling the idea of freedom in the Arab World today including the equality and inequality of women.
We are in a society that is considered conservative, where supposedly men and women are equal. In practice they are not equal. In some countries women cannot drive, they don’t have access to work, they don’t have the same salaries. In Tunisia for example, they are the first to tell you that men and women are equal but in fact they are not.
When you have an artist talk about this issue it’s fundamental in creating an awareness of where things are. It’s about questioning ourselves. Our actions contribute to our society, so if we agree that men and women are equal but then we say “my wife should stay at home and cook”, are we really equal?
It’s about questioning ourselves. Our actions contribute to our society…
[Q]
Where do you see Middle Eastern art going?
[A]
What I think has been happening in North Africa and The Middle East over the past ten to fifteen years is that artists are really expressing the changes taking place in their world and in their societies in Morocco, in Egypt, in Syria, and in Lebanon. Even in India you started to see this before the Arab Spring, where artists were expressing the idea of change in a very developed and clever way. You have a lot of stories with censorship. For example, in Art Dubai recently some artworks were taken down because of censorship. The main focus for artists in the region is the idea of freedom, which is limited for political and commercial reasons.
The main focus for artists in the region is the idea of freedom, which is limited for political and commercial reasons.
[Q]
Do you think that some of these artists are in some way changing society by pushing these boundaries?
[A]
Artists are the first to express the idea of change in a society. In 2011 we did a project in the Venice Biennale, which was about working for change. I was working with artists ten years ago about this idea of change. They expressed the idea of desiring new models in society and they produced very critical works using new forms.
Artists are the first to express the idea of change in a society.
So these are the new tendencies in the Arab world in North Africa and the Middle East. It’s a generation of artists, which are our generation and younger, less than forty years old. They emerged in the late nineties until now. I call them the generation double zero. They are artists who witnessed the wake of freedom in Arab countries and who witnessed also the action for change and made the changes real. They went from the idea of freedom to the action. The dream became possible.
I call them the generation double zero. They are artists who witnessed the wake of freedom in Arab countries and who witnessed also the action for change and made the changes real.
We also saw the other side in Iran. The change was in the other direction. There was a rise of another ideology which was much more conservative. Even colonization was a kind of revolution where people were fighting for their freedom. It’s a circle where societies become free and independent and then a new kind of colonialism happens and then fight against that. Artists are the first people who will see these limitations, and who will express the idea of freedom. You can see it with Um Kulthum. You can see it with Mouna Hattoum and many other artists like them.
Artists are the first people who will see these limitations, and who will express the idea of freedom.
[Q]
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
[A]
I was born in Morocco so my roots are Mediterranean. My ancestors are from Turkey, Lebanon, Greece.. I dunno.. people were just going around with ships and somehow they stopped there. Throughout our history we had queens. Our leaders were women, they were the big fighters and the gladiators. I am reminded of a story we have in Morocco about Palestinians coming to invade North Africa.
Our leaders were women, they were the big fighters and the gladiators.
The Moroccan queen at the time had an army and there was news that the Palestinians were coming. They were very strong and would kill a big part of her army. Since she did not want her children and her army to be killed, she proposed to give the Palestinians her country and to adopt them as her own children. She nursed them and breastfed them so that they become true brothers. She gave them the county and they soon also took North Africa. So I come from this region which has a rich history and which is also very international.
[Q]
Where did your journey of art begin?
[A]
I studied art history and art criticism in France. After completing my studies, I went back to Morocco and started an art center called Apartment 22. The story behind it is that after completing my PHD in France, I couldn’t find a place in Morocco where I could see the artworks of my generation, or attend conferences. I decided to start creating conferences with philosophers, artists, and musicians in my own apartment, hence the name.
Five years later we started a radio project, Art 22 Radio. It was a place to further share our thoughts and ideas. So my experience is in, exhibition, production, radio, and books.
I couldn’t find a place in Morocco where I could see the artworks of my generation, or attend conferences. I decided to start creating conferences with philosophers, artists, and musicians in my own apartment…
It’s about the ideas, the expression, and how to share them, starting from research to action, and in between there is the formulation and the production. Education is a huge part of the action. You know where you want to go, you know what you want to share, and you want people to get you right. You want give the right message.
It’s about the ideas, the expression, and how to share them, starting from research to action, and in between there is the formulation and the production.
[Q]
What role does Mathaf play in education given of its location and with so many university students and visitors from abroad?
[A]
Yesterday we had a talk with Magdi Musafa, an Egyptian artist who created a conceptual project in our Project Space which has has no images. By definition an exhibition is a visual experience, it’s an image you can see. This is the first project in the Project Space that is dedicated to our ears. You listen to the sound vibrations and images are created in your mind in function of your culture and where you come from. What is intriguing about this exhibition is that the focus is not on the eye but on the the ear as an entry point, allowing the other senses to interpret the experience.
What is intriguing about this exhibition is that the focus is not on the eye but on the the ear as an entry point, allowing the other senses to interpret the experience.
The emerging generation of Arab cultures and other countries in the world such as Brazil and India are changing drastically. Art is being redefined. Large art hubs, such as New York, London, and Tokyo are looking at us and observing the developments happening here. We are showcasing new forms and tendencies in art. So today what is happening in Qatar is that we are building the structures of visibility. What is created here by this young generation of artists will become visible to a global audience.
Art is being redefined. Large art hubs, such as New York, London, and Tokyo are looking at us and observing the developments happening here.
The general program at Mathaf is structured like a museum but it is also an art center. The responsibility of the museum is to document our time and to show the expressions of individual artists. The museum is a place where we connect the visionary, which is the artist, with the audience. The museum is not responsible for the ideas formulated by the artist rather we are a vessel in bringing the ideas to the audience. We open a space of encounter and we show the works, as they are. We don’t initiate the work however we do select what we want to show based on the society we live in.
The general program at Mathaf is structured like a museum but it is also an art center. The responsibility of the museum is to document our time and to show the expressions of individual artists.
[Q]
What about some of Mathaf’s programs?
[A]
For the Project Space we have residencies for artists and curators, mostly young ones. At the moment artist Alia Farid from Kuwait is in residency and is here producing her body of work, which will be funded by the museum. We also have residency programs for researchers, who have access to our contemporary and modern collections. The residencies are from three weeks to two months and are proposed by curators we invite. You can see more information on our website under visiting scholars if you are interested.
The museum is a place where we connect the visionary, which is the artist, with the audience.
Also, we will soon open our permanent collection exhibition entitled, Paintings, Sculptures, and Projects Garden, to the public. It will start outside in the sculpture garden and continue onto the first floor. We are working on many other new initiatives and projects so it will be an interesting 2014 for Mathaf!
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